Before the election everyone was campaigning for more climate protection, now the bill is coming, and there is even the threat of a Russian winter. In “Hard but fair”, Frank Plasberg asks: “Put warm clothes on: How expensive should heating, fuel and food still be?”
The guests
► Katarina Barley (52, SPD). The Vice President of the European Parliament calls for alternative full throttle: “We need more speed with renewables!”
► Peter Ramsauer (67, CSU). The economic politician railed: “The high fuel prices hit those who depend on their cars with full force!”
► Mona Neubaur (44, Greens). The party leader in North Rhine-Westphalia sees the blame for “our dependence on imports”.
► Ulrich Schneider (63, left). The welfare officer tirelessly repeats: “The state must increase the Hartz IV rates!”
► Hermann-Josef Tenhagen (58). The business journalist (“Finanztipp”) predicts: “Energy prices will continue to rise!”
The same concerns, but very different judgments. The Zoff-o-Meter probes the conflict zones.
Most optimistic overture
“We know that renewable energies are significantly cheaper in the end, at the end of the day, for consumers,” the European politician asserts briskly.
The talk show host stops her: “When is the end of the day?”
“Up until now, we had a coalition partner who always put the brakes on hard,” replies Barley. “But we hope that the new federal government will give us a real boost in this direction.”
Ulrich Schneider (63, left).Photo: Das Erste / ARD
Most tell-tale difference
“In the last legislative period, we tried to improve the heating costs for the tenants,” explains the SPD politician, “namely that the landlords should share in the price increases.”
Just the landlord? Not the landlords? Does the gender urge come up against the limits of equality here? Or is rental too ugh to be run by women?
Most understandable refusal
“You read that your party leader Markus Söder is calling for an expensive cap against inflation. What does he mean? “, The talk show host asks the CSU politician.
But Ramsauer does not want to jump over this hurdle: “Unfortunately, I cannot explain that to you, dear Mr. Plasberg,” he replies. “It’s best to ask yourself!”
“I thought you were a member of the CSU …” jokes the talk show host.
“Yes, but an MP who thinks very independently,” the Bavarian grins, “with a lot of economic expertise.” Bum!
Most realistic analysis
About the first petrol stations with fuel prices of over two euros, Ramsauer says: “Crazy! Shocking! That comes from the eight-year high in oil. “
The family-run miller (“Ramsauer Talmühle KG”) says about expensive groceries: “If you have poor harvests, it has an impact on end consumer prices, for bread as well as pasta.” That also has nothing to do with climate protection measures such as CO2 pricing to do.
Katarina Barley (52, SPD)Photo: Das Erste / ARD
Most unwelcome contradiction
The “green” politician prefers to see the price increases as “the crisis of fossil fuels”. As state aid, it calls for “targeted solutions” such as more money for food, additional payments for electricity and gas and higher housing benefits.
But Tenhagen pours true water into the social wine: “The last government increased the housing benefit because of the energy price,” the expert notes. “But two thirds of the people who can apply for housing benefit don’t do it.” Reason: “Faxy authorities, miserably long forms.” Uff!
Most class-fighting argument
The SPD politician, once Minister of Justice, wants to score points with legal measures against “exploding rents”, but Plasberg checks her into the gang: “Ms. Barley, with all due respect, we recently closed a whole program!”
The welfare officer, on the other hand, does not believe in the idea of alleviating poverty by lowering VAT on food: “Completely obscure!” He complains. “Then the lobster, the oyster and the vintage champagne would be relieved just as much as the can of sardines and the bottle of beer!“
Then Schneider drives off his party program: “We have to finally reunite this society with minimum wages, with a sensible pension policy, with a sensible policy at Hartz-IV!”
“At this point, I believe, I have to say again that you are a member of the Left Party,” said Plasberg dryly.
The Zoff-o-Meter starts up promptly
“That means: what?” Asks Schneider irritably. “That I can’t be right at all?”
“That means that you are not only a lobbyist,” replies the talk show host, “but also with political demands …”
“We have to be careful now! “, Schneider warns with a raised index finger and points to the electoral successes of the SPD and the Greens:” The point here is that, as chief executive of the Paritätischer Wohlfahrtsverband, we want to have these issues realized more strongly again. It has nothing to do with party politics at all! “
Peter Ramsauer (67, CSU)Photo: Das Erste / ARD
Most skeptical interjection
“All the automotive groups have now decided: They will make battery-electric individual vehicles possible,” lectures the green. “We need the massive expansion in renewables in order to cover part of the mobility in the drive turnaround with electrically powered cars in the country.” Phew!
“In big cities like Cologne, every charging station is celebrated personally!” Plasberg scoffs unmoved. “Until they are in the Eifel …”
Most embarrassing failure
“I am from Berlin. Between the most expensive petrol station in the morning and the cheapest in the evening there are 18 cents! ”Reports Tenhagen. “At the motorway filling station 36 to 37 cents. Anyone who refuel on the autobahn does not have to pay attention to at least math class from the fourth grade onwards. “
Barley wants to shine with a reference to the problems of the rural population: “I live near Trier, that’s still possible,” she says, “but in the Hunsrück …”
But Plasberg cuts her off: “You are close to Luxembourg, just admit it!” He blasphemed. The cheap fuel country! Joy in the studio …
Most deliberate pronunciation error
Linke-Schneider is also complaining against the transport minister’s idea of capping the price of petrol at 2 euros.
“It’s the same problem as with VAT,” he complains, “if you start to favor those who are cruising around in SUVs.” He speaks of the “SUV” as a reproachful “booze”. Uff!
Mona Neubaur (44, Greens)Photo: Das Erste / ARD
Most spontaneous outburst of emotion
“Please always check the prices!” Advises the journalist to drivers. “These gas station operators take it from the living, and you don’t have to accept that! Works with such an app – but works with other things too! “
Tenhagen complains about the insane price increases of some public utilities for gas: “There are gamblers at work!”
If the required quantities are ordered on time, there are reasonable prices, explains the expert. “But if you are on the gas exchange and you think that Putin can be ripped off, then these companies have a problem: They have to go up with the prices.”
And again Zoff
An ARD clip shows how other EU countries are reacting to energy prices: Italy is reducing VAT, Spain is halving VAT on electricity, gas prices are being capped by the state in France and the government is sending households with low incomes additional energy checks for 100 euros.
Ramsauer is on top of things: “These are the right countries!” He rages. “Of all things!”
Plasberg heats him up a bit: “Learning from Italy means?”
“To have to learn from a damn debt state!” Roars the CSU man. “And I don’t feel like doing it!”
Most extensive frontal attack
Then Ramsauer pulls mightily from the leather. “That is this Mediterranean debt-state philosophy!” “I am glad that the FDP is now clearly saying during the explorations: no loosening of the debt brake!”
Barley clears his throat in embarrassment, Schneider growls protest, but the Bavarian cannot be stopped: “They are all speculating that if this new government comes about, then the debts in Europe will be communitized and the Germans will already pay. Not with me! That is irresponsible! “
Hermann-Josef Tenhagen (58)Photo: Das Erste / ARD
Most violent contradiction
“Mr. Ramsauer!” Groans the SPD politician, almost in despair.
“We cannot approach the matter with national clichés!” Protests Wohlfahrts-Schneider.
“Take a look at the debt ratios!” Ramsauer wedges back. Heidewitzka!
The plumpest diversionary maneuver
“When it comes to the question ‘Who turns the gas tap’, you can’t get past Putin, and you can’t ignore the stimulus word ‘Nordstream 2’”, the talk show host states at the end and shows a clip with the BILD headline “Let’s Putin in the winter freeze?”
“Russia has always delivered energy reliably,” Barley says. “The sheikhs in the Middle East have been sitting there for decades and say: We’ll turn it down now, and now we will turn it up …”
Most transparent pseudo-argument
A criminal case must also serve as an explanation: “They killed Mr. Kashoggi,” says the SPD politician about the murder of the most famous Saudi dissident. “Did anyone say we now have to draw political conclusions?”
About Putin’s wars in Ukraine and Syria and she prefers to remain silent, but not about possible plans of the Russians: “They have a means of power in their hands. Do you use that for ‘Nordstream 2’? I believe that Germany has an interest in a quick start-up. ”Just like her party colleague, gas manager Gerhard Schröder. Hallelujah!
Quote of the evening
Katarina Barley:
I am definitely right!
Conclusion
Typical ARD talk: The political intentions poorly camouflaged, the facts adjusted for propaganda and the only conservative guest alone in the hallway. That was a talk in the “showderhaft” category.