EPP Chairman Weber calls for a clear course towards China

Weber expressly welcomes French President Emmanuel Macron’s ambition to strengthen Europe’s sovereignty: “It was also a bold dream after the Second World War to talk about friendship between Germany and France.”

However, Bayer Weber warns of French efforts to weaken the euro stability pact: “Sovereignty also means having a stable currency.”

Read the entire interview here.

Mr. Weber, the Russians have made a commitment: the talks with the West about Ukraine are “a dead end”. Nevertheless, US Secretary of State Blinken wants to meet his Russian counterpart. What’s the point?

For us in the West, diplomacy always makes sense. Resolving conflicts through conversation is always the priority. But the tones from Moscow show once again that Putin is serious. And he obviously also uses the transition that we are currently experiencing in important states of the European Union – with the new federal government in Berlin, the departure of Angela Merkel and the upcoming presidential elections in France. He uses the insecurity that we have in Europe – and plays with fire.

What is Putin up to?

I am convinced that the core concern is that the idea of ​​freedom, democracy and the rule of law will continue to spread eastwards. More than 30 years ago we had demonstrations in Leipzig, Berlin and Warsaw. We had demonstrations in Kiev. Recently we had demonstrations in Minsk. For Putin, it’s only a matter of time before people take to the streets in Moscow and say: ‘Why can’t we live in a free, democratic country, in a country where oligarchs don’t determine how judges judge or money is distributed.’ Putin is afraid of this basic idea of ​​freedom, and that’s why he’s trying to build a firewall.

However, this also means that the EU is at least as threatening to the Kremlin as the NATO military alliance.

Yes. The idea that the EU stands for is what threatens Putin. That is why we must stand up for this idea together. In the competition between democracy and Putin’s oligarchic-autocratic system, there can be no question for Europe: We are resolutely on the side of Ukraine and on the side of the opposition in Russia and Belarus. Hence my appeal to Olaf Scholz: He must emancipate himself from Schröder’s SPD. We need a German chancellor who takes a firm stand on these issues and who clearly names the price of military aggression against Ukraine.

However, the Union is also struggling with a clear definition. In view of the Russian expansion policy, can the Baltic Sea pipeline go into operation?

Nord Stream 2 is dead if there is a military escalation. It’s about war and peace. If Putin goes to war, Nord Stream 2 will no longer be sustainable. The pipeline was a mistake from the start because it increases Europe’s dependence on Russia and is driving the EU apart. We should have relied more on liquid gas, that would have been the right decision 20 years ago. My expectation towards the European Council and also towards French President Emmanuel Macron is that Putin will name the award. The clearer the consequences of aggression are described, the more realistic it is that we prevent war.

But isn’t it the bitter reality that we are dependent on Russian gas and that Putin has the upper hand?

The question is whether Russia wants to work in partnership with us. Even in the difficult times of the Cold War, the country was a stable energy supplier. Will it stay that way? That will be decided in Moscow.

It doesn’t look as though the Kremlin is interested in a constructive relationship at this point.

However, I would like to point out that our German energy policy is a self-created dilemma. We bet too heavily on Russia. Now we have to think about new sources as soon as possible. For example, between Egypt and Cyprus there are very interesting gas fields. We have to make Africa a partner, think broader and get out of this fixation on Russia. And it is also clear that the faster we as a society succeed in switching to renewable energy sources, the more energy independence we will create for Germany.

France wants to bridge the way there with nuclear power. Do we have to rediscuss the nuclear question?

Germany has made a fundamental decision to phase out nuclear power. There is a broad social consensus on this. We go our way and other countries go theirs. The new Dutch government, for example, has decided to build two new nuclear power plants. We should also respect that in Europe – that everyone goes their own way. Realistically speaking, both gas and nuclear power are necessary to achieve the transformation towards renewable energy sources.

So you can live with the Commission’s proposal to give gas and nuclear power the seal of sustainability for the time being?

We are not generally negative, but we will take our time to look at the proposal in Parliament and then position ourselves.

Macron dreams of European sovereignty – a bold dream given the current situation in which Moscow and Washington will decide on European security?

It was also a bold dream to talk about friendship between Germany and France after World War II. It was a bold dream of Helmut Kohl to create a common European currency. I’m glad that we’re dreaming again, that we’re excited about the future again. In the next ten years it will be about whether we can defend our model of life, the model of freedom, the rule of law and equality. We find ourselves in a tough competition between systems. Both with Russia and with China. Also against the background that the United States unfortunately has many internal challenges, Europe must finally stand on its own two feet.

The EU also finds it difficult to take a clear position on China.

It is obvious that China has significantly expanded its ambitions and has become a global player that practices power politics in very, very harsh terms. Lithuania is currently feeling the effects as one of the smaller countries in the EU.

Angered by Lithuania’s relations with Taiwan, China has imposed a comprehensive economic boycott. Are we showing enough solidarity?

It is unacceptable for China to blackmail small states economically in order to assert its own interests and even abuse companies to exert pressure. This behavior is unacceptable. Europe must answer clearly that we will not tolerate this and that Lithuania will be put back on China’s import list and must be accepted again as part of the European single market. It is also clear that Europe needs a long-term China strategy. Angela Merkel tried to formulate one – and failed in the EU. And that’s another example of where we can’t agree. A new attempt must therefore now be made under the French Presidency.

Should the EU as a whole deepen its ties with Taiwan? For example by striving for a free trade agreement?

I strongly encourage us to step up talks with Taiwan. But I also advocate that we proceed cautiously with the symbolism. Overall, it must be noticeable that the democracies in the Asian region can rely on us as partners. In the competition between systems, Taiwan is today what West Berlin used to be: the place where our democratic social model is struggling to survive in close proximity to a system rival. We must support those who stand up for democracy and the rule of law.

It is not for nothing that there is more ability to act in foreign policy and less dependence on energy policy. Macron therefore wants to soften the European debt limits. How do you feel about this?

We need more investment, there’s no question about that. But even debt that is used for investments remains debt. That is why I stand by Europe’s stability-oriented policy. Sovereignty also means having a stable currency. What we have to do with investments is to finally get out of state thinking. We have a lot of private capital looking for opportunities to generate returns. Clever politicians must try to mobilize private capital for future investments on the continent and create the right framework for this.

How do you assess the debt situation in Europe? Are you worried?

There is far too much discussion about relaxing the rules – with the approval of the new federal government. And that in a situation in which we see really excessive, even frightening levels of debt in public budgets because of Corona. In the time of the crisis it was right to hold back financially, but now we have to get back to reasonably stable budgets. We, as the EPP Group, will hold the Commission to account.

Federal Finance Minister Christian Lindner introduced himself in Brussels as a “friendly hawk”, i.e. as someone who is soft in tone but tough on the matter. You should really like that.

The Berlin position is not only associated with Christian Lindner. Two governing parties, the SPD and the Greens, are open to relaxing the debt rules. Chancellor Scholz’s visit to Spain also indicates that the Social Democrats in Europe are trying to weaken the stability pact. In this respect: The position of the federal government is not clear, we do not know what it stands for, also on this issue.

Do we know what the Union parties stand for? Friedrich Merz will take over the CDU presidency at the weekend. Parts of the base hope for a conservative turn.

Both Friedrich Merz and CSU leader Markus Söder have made it clear that there is no strategy discussion in the Union. We know what we stand for. In the difficult phase after the election defeat, Merz managed to stabilize the CDU. The polls show that too. Opposition isn’t a sprint, it’s a long-distance run. The next nationwide election is the 2024 European elections. We want to make it clear that we are the parties that have the right plan for bringing this continent together and bringing it into a good future.

Mr. Weber, thank you very much for the interview.

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