Emma boss Manuel Müller calls for climate guidelines and wealth tax

The entrepreneur is also in favor of reintroducing the wealth tax. Society needs more equality of opportunity, he believes in the principle of “being born naked and going back that way”. And he emphasizes: “If we cement assets, then I build boxes – social and economic.” That could not be the goal of a society. “This is not how the smartest minds get to the top,” says Müller.

Read the entire interview here

Mr. Müller, as a digital entrepreneur you are an expert on disruption. In which areas does politics most urgently need a disruption, i.e. a complete new start?
Firstly with digitization, and especially in schools and universities. Even in public institutions, the simplest administrative activities are still not digitized, so something urgently needs to be done. Second, with the energy transition. We know where we as industry and society need to become greener. But if you are the only one in the industry with this, or if the customer does not want to pay for it, then we have a competitive disadvantage. This is where the legislature is called upon: it must provide guidelines on the way to climate neutrality.

Many family businesses feel overwhelmed by the task of climate neutrality. They also?
There must be equal opportunities internationally if you don’t want to leave any industry behind in Germany. One will have to think about whether tariffs or other measures can create a level playing field.

Why has so little happened in these fields so far?
It is a complex challenge and many politicians only think in four-year rhythms. Much was simply eaten out. Fortunately, there is agreement among the parties that are now exploring a traffic light coalition that some issues have been overslept.

So you have high hopes for the future three-party coalition?
Yes, I have high hopes. The vote was clear. Olaf Scholz made it clear that parties won and others lost. Politicians should listen, younger people have clear preferences towards green and yellow. If she doesn’t, a lot of trust will be lost.

As a start-up entrepreneur, what do you specifically want?
Clear framework conditions and a timetable for how the industrial renovation and thus climate neutrality can be achieved. You have to keep in mind that as a start-up we can implement many things much faster than a company with large production.

Does politics have enough expertise to set the framework? Tunnel construction contractor Martin Herrenknecht expressed clear doubts about this in an interview with Handelsblatt last week.
The politicians are often not experts, that is correct, but they can access external knowledge and reports. The economy makes it a little too easy for itself if it always comes up with the homicide argument that politics doesn’t understand it anyway. Politicians also deal with much more complex issues than climate protection.

“The lobby associations make politics”

Would you talk to politicians?
Yes, but it would be more important if manufacturing companies entered into an exchange on this issue, as they are more difficult to bear in the change.

Would you like to see politicians ask more questions as an entrepreneur?
It would be desirable for politics to approach companies. Otherwise the game works the other way round: The lobby associations make politics, which is not in the interests of all entrepreneurs.

Have the founders in this country become more political?
Yes, they are slowly emerging from the bush. I, too, had held back so far. But now I have more political discussions and I was amazed to find that entrepreneurs are much more colorful than the image that one has of an entrepreneur.

You are non-party, what are your hopes for the Greens?
What we as voters will end up being presented as a coalition program will be a mix of what social democrats, liberals and greens have brought together as a consensus. The latter tend to exaggerate claims in the areas in which they are competent. But that’s perfectly okay, it attracts attention. In the end, the soup will not be eaten as hot as it will be cooked.

“Personally, I would not have trusted Laschet with the transformation”

Why is it so important to you that the next government be formed without the Union?
On the one hand, the CDU stands for a protective, conservative attitude, not just on a social level. This change of government offers perspectives for real change, a new beginning.

And on the other hand …?
Personally, I simply would not have trusted Armin Laschet to advance this transformation. My gut tells me that. In addition, there is the picture that Mr. Laschet gave in the election campaign – even during the flood. I don’t want to see pictures like this on the international stage. I have more confidence in Olaf Scholz.

Would Markus Söder have been the better candidate?
Mr. Söder was positively noticed that he was able to develop similarities with the Greens, I think he’s a little more progressive.

You see the FDP as a free market corrective. In your opinion, what does the FDP have to achieve so that you are satisfied and start-ups can work well?
First of all: The SPD will also make its points there. I am very satisfied in Germany, and we won’t get any faster if taxes go down. With a red-green government, however, taxes would certainly have risen, the FDP is a guardian not to overstrain it. I think liberal ideas are particularly important on a societal level, for example when it comes to diversity and immigration.

In your opinion, which tax increases would be harmful?
Value-added tax, for example, is less effective – but not only because it would have a particular effect on products that are not consumed every day, such as those we sell. People with lower and middle incomes cannot avoid this, with high incomes it is less so.

What would an alternative be?
It would be more important to me to close tax loopholes. One should only increase taxes with which political goals are to be achieved, for example in the case of CO2 pricing.

“We need more equal opportunities”

What do you think of the wealth tax?
We have something to regulate there. We need more equality of opportunity, I believe in the principle of “being born naked and going back that way”. If we cement assets, then I build boxes – social and economic. That can’t be the goal of a society, so the smartest minds don’t get to the top.

In your opinion, how should such a wealth tax be structured?
There isn’t just one model. For example, it is not very effective to use fixed assets from companies. My aim is to activate large non-productive assets for society.

Do you want an increase in inheritance tax?
Breaking up companies and selling them to pay the tax may not be the answer. But it is just not fair for large fortunes to be passed on without being taxed. In my opinion, the Taxmenow initiative provides positive impetus to show that wealthy heirs are increasingly dissatisfied with the structure of the inheritance tax system. There is a willingness to participate in the financing of state tasks.

They want the smartest minds to come up. Do we also need more support for start-ups?
On the whole, we’re not that bad about that. We just need to start laying the foundations earlier. If we invest more in education and equal opportunities, we will get more new founders and we will create an economic elite that is more diverse. It is also a fundamental mood in society that is important for promoting entrepreneurship: How willing are we to take risks? In this country, unfortunately, one still often encounters the “German fear”. We just have to encourage people to dare more from the start.

“Haniel’s aim was not to make Emma better”

Do you see an increasing willingness to think entrepreneurially?
There is definitely a tendency for employees to be more entrepreneurial now. As a result, many corporations and family businesses today have difficulties in finding young talent. They prefer to work at the start-ups.

How do you encourage this thinking in your company?
I’ll just put it the other way round: With us, you will be measured by how much you think entrepreneurially. For us, this is not a request, but a recruitment criterion. We want all employees to act as if it were their own company.

But then managers must also be ready to hand over responsibility.
We don’t have hierarchies in mind. If an intern tells me my suggestion isn’t that good and he has a better idea, then let’s do it.

The Haniel family company has held the majority in Emma since last year. Do you even fit in with this way of working?
We have great freedom. Haniel does not intervene in our organization or operationally. They did not take over Emma to change us, but because we are successful. At the top management level, of course, we exchange ideas, also with the other portfolio companies from the Haniel world.

And what does Haniel get out of it?
You have a successful company in your portfolio that can be run independently. Haniel’s aim was not to make Emma better. At the same time, we can bring best practices to other Haniel companies from the Emma’s perspective.

Haniel boss Thomas Schmidt sees Emma as part of his sustainability strategy. Which aspects is he referring to?
Sustainability is not just about protecting the environment. Haniel sees us positively when it comes to diversity and equal opportunities, for example.

Is the great diversity at Emma one of the reasons why you express yourself more politically than many other entrepreneurs?
To be honest, we have only been consciously doing this recently. We lived the open culture as a matter of course, and that attracts a lot of people. For us it is quite normal that all team members are different, then it automatically follows that the workforce becomes more diverse. We recently conducted an anonymous and voluntary survey and found that around 17 percent of employees feel they belong to the LGBTQIA + community.

Mr. Müller, thank you very much for the interview.

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