Malignant is an audacious horror movie with a story co-written by Ingrid Bisu, who also stars as Winnie in the film. And making an original tale with a villain twist that most people won’t see coming is something that really excited Bisu. Screen Rant spoke with Bisu at length about Madison, Gabriel, the big twist, and how the movie as a whole bucks many horror tropes.
We’ve been told that the concept for this film came from your dreams. Can you explain that how you turned essentially a nightmare into a movie?
Ingrid Bisu: So the actual reality of it is that I’ve always been fascinated with medical anomalies. I’m just obsessed with it, for some reason; I don’t know, maybe there’s something wrong with me! But I’ve always been obsessed with the idea of parasitic twins and teratomas. I think where the nightmares were coming in was the fact that, while we were doing this movie, I had such vivid dreams, because everything that we were seeing and everything that we were creating was all gore, blood. So it was definitely a time where my mind was flourishing in that department. But this was not based on a nightmare. I’m sorry if I ruin it for some people – it sounds cooler if it had been – but this is a thought-out process.
So how is the final product compared to what you originally thought of? Is it exactly what you expected or did many things change along the way?
Ingrid Bisu: I think it’s exactly as I expected because when we created it, I got a chance to create it with the actual director. So it never swayed from the original idea. If you have a script and then somebody else takes over and they do their own vision of your script, they can come out completely different sometimes, but because I got an opportunity to work with my husband and we got to develop it together, be on the same page, and spend so much time together – I was on set, I was an executive producer, and he’s super generous, super sweet, and open, and will always give someone an opportunity to speak up – so if I had an idea, like small things, he was like, “Oh, yeah, that’s interesting.” I think that’s why it was everything that I could have possibly imagined.
Can you give me an example of one of those things that were done on set?
Ingrid Bisu: Yeah, absolutely! We have this scene – the big chase scene between Detective Kekoa and Gabriel – and initially, the plan was to shoot that and then reverse the run, because obviously, Gabriel is all backward. And so, I was like, “What if we ask the stunt person to try and actually run backward?” Which is really hard in a hallway. I mean, I find it very difficult to walk backward. Running backward? I got no clue. Fortunately, we had a fantastic stuntwoman, Lauren Shaw, who was like, “Hell, yeah, I’m going to give it a shot.” And she did, and then we also had Marina Mazepa, who was our incredible contortionist. They both contributed to this; they just started running backward and moving their arms the way [Gabriel] would, and it looked fantastic. That was one of the things where I was like, “What if we tried something a little crazy here?” And it worked!
So did the fact that it worked, did it influence the precinct scene in the end?
Ingrid Bisu: No, we already had that mapped out. I mean, honestly, we created it and were like, “How in the hell are we going to find somebody to do this?” We were thinking, “I want to go to Mars! I don’t know how I’m going to do it, but I’m going to do it.” That’s the way we proceeded with this. And then the pieces just started falling into place; we got an incredible contortionist in Marina Mazepa – she really embodies Gabriel for most of the film – and we also have another incredible contortionist, Troy James, who’s mostly in the beginning of the movie. We were thinking she could do it – and she did it. Even the way she was thinking about the breathing, how the shoulders move, trying to give as much life to Gabriel as possible because obviously, he’s animatronic. So she really blew us away with the choreography that she combined with our stunt department for that jailhouse scene.
This is obviously a horror movie, but there are different elements of horror – there’s body horror, but there’s also the fear of someone being in your house, and so forth. It’s interesting to combine so many different types of horror. Was that always the plan to look at it from different angles and make it more than just one type of horror film?
Ingrid Bisu: Absolutely. I mean, I’m always one of the complainers; I’m one of the people who is always like, “Man, I wish Hollywood would come up with something new and stop with all these remakes,” which you shouldn’t say, but that’s me. So when we started working on this, we thought, “Let’s just f***ing do something insane. Let’s just throw everything at the wall and in the kitchen sink. Let’s just let our ideas flow and not stop ourselves; let’s try not to follow a certain pattern.” There’s a formula that usually works, but we [were thinking] let’s forget the formula and start from scratch. James [Wan] is a huge fan of all these greats – Brian de Palma, David Cronenberg, Dario Argento; we both love the Giallo style of movies, we both love ’90s slashers. I love violent movies! I really do; it allows me to release something that’s in me in a peaceful way. So that’s what we did with this movie; we kind of exorcised all our demons. We really threw it all in there. I think that’s probably why it’s so polarizing.
When I first saw this film, we had a Q&A with James and he mentioned that he thought it would be a polarizing movie because it’s so different from what he’s done before. It’s interesting because it starts as a straight horror movie but ends like an action film…
Ingrid Bisu: Yes! Gabriel’s like a horror superhero.
Exactly.
Ingrid Bisu: I’ve never seen that done before and I’m proud we were the ones to do it. That’s why I think we really feel – and I’ve noticed other people say it in their reviews – that it’s a genre blender.
It is. It’s practically everything. Even the soundtrack is different from most horror movies.
Ingrid Bisu: Yeah. Joseph Bishara is a genius; he really is. He’s worked on so many of James’ films.
Since you had a pivotal part in making this film, what’s your favorite aspect of it?
Ingrid Bisu: There are a couple of things; but being able to tell this woman’s story that goes from being abused to being in control of her own body, being in control of her own mind, and also just the unleashing that happens in the jail cell, that was like [everything] to my soul. We were just coming up with the craziest ideas; what if Gabriel rips off somebody’s arm and kills another person with that arm? We really did everything there and to me, that is one of the most badass… I don’t want to toot my own horn, but you know, it is one of the most badass scenes in any movie I’ve seen. So I would say that’s definitely my favorite. And I do see a pattern [among audiences], because I see people saying, “Holy sh*t! That third act blew me away.”
That scene where everything comes together and you finally realize what’s happening does change the entire concept of the movie. You’re no longer for someone else, the bad guy. Can you talk about the ideation of that, how you conceived of the idea of putting the villain on the back of Madison’s head?
Ingrid Bisu: We knew where we wanted him to be, and then we started thinking that this reveal needs to be something insane, some pivotal moment. The moment that her head gets slammed in the wall by her abusive husband, it’s kind of like an awakening. Gabriel had been lying dormant, the surgery put him to sleep, basically, and that scene awakens him. It’s almost like he gets bigger and bigger; if you noticed in certain scenes, there’s only a little bit of him, and at the very end in the jailhouse scene, it’s like he opens himself up completely; he literally sticks out. It’s like the more revenge he takes and the more people he takes out, the more power he gets. He gets more control over Madison’s body and she becomes more feeble and less of herself. So we felt that the explosion should happen is in the jail cell when she’s getting the last abuse that she ever gets before she retakes control of her body.
It’s fascinating, for sure. Usually, when people refer to you as your own worst enemy, it’s a figure of speech. Here, it’s quite literal. But on that – I couldn’t make the connection between Gabriel and his electricity powers, how he obtains that and how it builds throughout the movie. Is it because he’s killing that he gains more of that power?
Ingrid Bisu: I think what we felt about Gabriel was that he is this awful anomaly. It’s almost like he is a supernatural being. He realizes that when he’s angry, when he’s fearful, and when he’s in a situation that’s out of his control, he’s able to control this electricity, like with how he communicated through the radio. So that comes out in certain key moments of the movie – obviously in the scene that Madison is being interrogated. If you notice that every time he comes out, the lights dim; that’s when Madison goes into her trance. She has no idea what’s happening, but that’s Gabriel emerging. So he is supernatural at the same time.
Another thing: At the end, when Madison gains control of herself and traps Gabriel – we even see her reset the bones in her hand – but how does she learn to do all that? Does it all stem from an emotional rush to save her sister?
Ingrid Bisu: I think what we felt is that she’s always been a being who’s more powerful than she ever thought. She alone was capable of all things; she had the strength, she just never realized it. She’s a special being who was born in a special way. She’s not just a regular person like everybody else. So when she regains her powers and puts everything back into place, it’s not just a mental thing but also physical. When she lifts that bed off of her sister – you know, we’ve seen this happen with mothers when a child gets hurt or injured; you get this rush of adrenaline and almost have these superhuman powers. And I think that’s what happens to her in that moment, and she also realizes that she’s always had this strength in her. She’s always been capable of these things, but someone else had been controlling her.
In the very final scene, we get a hint that Gabriel is still there. If there was a sequel, where would you like to see him go next? You can’t redo the same twist because now everyone knows who Gabriel is, so how would you approach it?
Ingrid Bisu: There are a lot of ways this could go. You have an institution like the research hospital; so what else was happening in there, you know? It’s really hard to jump onto the idea of a continuation until you see if people like it or not. So that’s why I keep saying it’s really important to prove that it’s worthy of a sequel, and sequels usually happen if people actually go watch the movie. So it’s all about you guys; if you watch it and you want to keep seeing fresh, new things, and if you have that willingness and openness to support them, that would really help us potentially do something else. But I don’t want to jump the gun until I see how it plays out.
You mentioned the research hospital; in the third act, when Madison’s sister is at the hospital, she hears a sound and looks around her. I figured that would’ve turned the hospital into a big set-piece like many horror movies, but instead, she leaves. It was surprising to me and it felt like you were bucking a common horror trope.
Ingrid Bisu: You know, we really didn’t want to do jump scares in this movie; we wanted to keep them to a minimum. So sometimes, I find that keeping that tension works even better than having an immediate release, and I do find that people don’t really appreciate jump scares. I see that in a lot of comments. So I think it was us just trying to avoid that and surprise you by not giving you something that you thought was so sure.
Yeah. You’re essentially keeping people on their toes by having them expect something, but then not deliver that…
Ingrid Bisu: Instead, we give you something that you completely didn’t expect and exactly where you didn’t expect it. That’s kind of what I wanted to go by.
To go back to your comment about it potentially being polarizing; in making the film, did you expect that and did you change anything to make it less polarizing?
Ingrid Bisu: We knew. I’m just going to tell you; we made it with love and passion. We didn’t make it with the thought of how much money it would make or, “If we do this, maybe we’ll get more likes.” We were just going to be true to ourselves and to our creative process. I knew people were going to love it or they were going to f***ing hate it. There wasn’t going to be a middle, and that’s how it’s been. And I love it. I got to be honest, I love it; it means they care. It means it impacted people. I knew not everyone would like it because it’s not for everyone. It’s not something you should say when you’re promoting a movie, but it’s true! I’m not going to lie.
It is refreshing. Even for James Wan, he did Saw and Conjuring, and Insidious – but Saw changed the genre; Conjuring changed the genre; and this has the potential to change the genre again, to take it away from being subtle horror to being in-your-face horror and action. So beyond this, beyond Malignant, is there another idea that you have? Perhaps another medical idea?
Ingrid Bisu: I have another idea that may or may not be in the pipeline. We had a lot of free time during the pandemic, so what else could we use it for than to just be creative? That is all I can say about it. But I am excited to continue making new, original things; that’s my goal. And being in some of them inspired me. Like in this one, it was so much fun playing Winnie. I had so much fun creating this character that I never get a chance to play. I’m always tortured, crying, murdered, so I just wanted to create [a character]. I have a fan who called her Winnie the Simp because she’s so obsessed with a guy who just couldn’t care. So yeah, I just hope I keep getting the opportunity to do that.
You mentioned that people are saying they love it and hate it, and everyone’s talking about the third act – did you expect that or did you expect other reactions to other parts of the film?
Ingrid Bisu: Honestly, I did think that was going to be the big twist. It’s like in Saw when the guy gets up off the floor, or when you find out that Bruce Willis has been dead the entire time – you cannot not focus on that. As you said, we kind of lead them on a different path, and people think they have it figured out – that [Gabriel] is a ghost or something else – and then it’s just something completely different. I knew this was going to be a pivotal moment. And also, from watching it during editing, I saw how I felt, and I was rooting for Gabriel during that jail cell! I was getting up from my chair and was like, “Yeah!” It made me feel something.
That’s true. He’s not an action hero – he’s not even a hero – but you do root for him in that scene, because you want to see what he can do and how far he can go. And on that; do you have a list of his powers or abilities, perhaps a production bible on what he can and can’t do?
Ingrid Bisu: Yeah, I think contortion was the main one, the fact that he’s very agile, the fact that he’s able to control electricity to the point of charging a light bulb where it explodes. So we used all of the tricks that he has to help him escape, obviously… it’s a movie. In reality, he would’ve gotten shot. But it’s just part of the campiness and craziness that we wanted to bring to it, that he’s able to navigate these situations. And in a weird way, in a twisted way, I love Gabriel. He’s born in a body that isn’t his, that he doesn’t have control over, but I also feel immensely for Madison. I have a very complicated relationship with this; I don’t know if other people feel the same.
It’s an interesting line to toe because he is a sympathetic character in some ways. He keeps mentioning the line the doctors told him, about “cutting out the cancer”. So hypothetically, if they didn’t do that, how do you think it would’ve been different if they could’ve somehow coexisted?
Ingrid Bisu: I think it would’ve been hard because he did want to own a body. At the end of the day, he felt like it was his right, too. So he would’ve eventually killed Madison; a choice had to be made. The fact that he has an evil side didn’t help him. But really, we did want to make a character that is a little more complicated, that’s not a simple choice. The way you see Gabriel: if you really look at him and pay attention, it’s not that simple.