“Anyone who wants to phase out coal must not oppose new gas-fired power plants”

Andreae spoke out in favor of a drastic shortening of the approval procedures for new power plants. “The time span from an application to legally secure approval is four to eight years. That is unacceptable and stands in the way of the transformation process towards climate neutrality, ”she said. “In order to eliminate this bottleneck, impractical regulations have to be removed, the staffing of the licensing authorities has to be significantly improved, and administrative procedures have to be consistently digitized. There is no other way of achieving the ambitious political goals. “

Read the full interview here:

Ms. Andreae, the phase-out of coal and nuclear power means that secure power plant performance will no longer apply. New gas-fired power plants are therefore required as a back-up solution by 2030. What orders of magnitude are we talking about?
There have recently been numerous different studies and calculations on this. If you summarize the results, you can see that Germany will need an installed controllable power plant capacity in the range of 60 to 75 gigawatts (GW) in 2030. We consider 68 GW to be necessary, most of which are gas-powered. In doing so, we assume the analysis on behalf of the Ministry of Economic Affairs, according to which gas-powered power plants with a capacity of 15 GW must be built from scratch. These are then systems with combined heat and power (CHP), in which the production of electricity and heat is combined.

With a growing share of wind and solar power, the new power plants will only rarely be used. So it will be difficult to make money with the new systems. What should I do?
One of the basic requirements for a successful energy transition is the massive expansion of renewable energies. At the same time, however, it has to be about maintaining the high level of security of supply that we currently have. To achieve this goal, we need more flexibility in the overall system, including on the demand side. In addition, we have to increase storage capacities. It is therefore not the case that security of supply can only be ensured through controllable power plants, i.e. through the so-called residual load. But when all of this potential has been exhausted, there is no question that there is a need for controllable power plant output. That will not work without new gas-fired power plants. It must be ensured that these power plants are actually built through adequate CHP basic remuneration and a coal replacement bonus.

Do you need further incentives?
We have to discuss intensively whether additional instruments are required or whether the investment in new power plants can be refinanced through the sale of electricity alone. It is crucial that the power plants are actually connected to the grid when they are needed. There is not much time left. In the end, it must not happen that the Federal Network Agency is forced to keep coal-fired power plants in operation because otherwise the security of supply could not be guaranteed. Anyone who wants to phase out coal must not oppose new gas-fired power plants. It is clear that the new gas-fired power plants must be H2-ready, i.e. prepared for operation with hydrogen or other CO2-free gases. We are convinced that this must also be reflected in the EU taxonomy. It must be designed in such a way that investments in modern gas-fired power plants that are H2-ready are recorded.

Are there any role models for capacity market models in Europe that could be used?
The examples from the EU cannot be transferred to Germany, as it is always about very country-specific solutions. In addition, the state aid hurdles are very high. Simple solutions are therefore not in sight.

Even if the market conditions are right: lengthy approval procedures make the rapid construction of new power plants a challenge. So how realistic is it that new power plants will be operational by 2030?
That is a major hurdle indeed. The time span from an application to legally secure approval is four to eight years. That is unacceptable and is a massive obstacle to the transformation process towards climate neutrality. In order to eliminate this bottleneck, impractical regulations must be removed, the staffing of the approval authorities must be significantly improved, and administrative procedures must be consistently digitized. There is no other way of achieving the ambitious political goals.

Does it have to be able to cover the peak load domestically – or can one also rely on the “electric neighbors”?
We have an EU internal electricity market and that is a good thing. The growing together of the energy markets strengthens the security of supply. We benefit when we can support each other, for example when a power plant fails and the electricity comes from the neighboring country. But that alone is not enough. Germany must continue to strive to make progress in the expansion of renewables. We are talking about doubling wind power capacities and tripling photovoltaic capacities by 2030. At the same time, we need sufficient secure power – we cannot simply rely on our neighbors.

In many scenarios for the development of the power supply system, it is assumed that Germany will also import a growing proportion of the electricity it needs from abroad over the course of the year. Is that okay or rather problematic?
One should not narrow one’s view of the electricity sector. Germany already imports around 80 percent of its primary energy requirements from abroad. Even if we drastically expand our renewable capacities, we will remain an energy importing country. However, the structure of imports will change. In the future, we will no longer import oil and natural gas, but decarbonised gas, for example in the form of green hydrogen.

Climate protection organizations and, for example, the Green Youth are calling for an end to the use of natural gas from 2035. Can that succeed?
The politically defined goal is climate neutrality by 2045. By then, the gas we use must be decarbonised. This goal is extremely ambitious. I warn against messing around with other numbers and new exit dates. Anyone calling for such an exit from the use of natural gas is playing with security of supply. And that is elementary for all of us. Anyone who endangers them also endangers the basis of acceptance for the entire transformation process.

Power plants operated with natural gas and the entire natural gas infrastructure have the advantage that they can be converted to use hydrogen. When will this be practically relevant?
We are only at the beginning of a fundamental upheaval. I dedicate half of my time to the question of how we are making progress on the subject of hydrogen. There are considerable initiatives and projects across all size classes in the member companies. The development of the transport infrastructure is of decisive importance in this phase. I also see promising projects at all other levels along the entire value chain. However, it will certainly take a few years before the ramp-up succeeds and economies of scale take effect.

So far, climate-neutral hydrogen is not yet available. What development do you expect?
The potential is enormous. Of course, hydrogen is not the bringer of salvation for everything, but I am sure that it will become one of the main pillars of the transformed energy supply system. We advocate a broad approach. Hydrogen can make decisive contributions on the path to climate neutrality not only in the industrial and heavy goods or air traffic sectors. Its storability alone will make it indispensable in the medium term.

At the moment, the gas industry has to deal primarily with the subject of methane. What should I do? How do you rate the EU Commission’s regulatory plans?
The EU Commission’s methane strategy makes sense. We support that. We need a uniform database for measurement and reporting as well as more transparency. The industry is aware that it has to step up. Detecting and repairing leaks must be given higher priority. Our industry in Germany was able to reduce methane emissions by 40 percent between 1990 and 2017. The gas distribution network operators and the transmission system operators are working specifically on projects that will contribute to further reducing emissions.

Keyword building sector: electric heat pumps play a dominant role in many scenarios. Are natural gas heating systems being phased out?
We all need solutions. In Germany we are talking about an extremely heterogeneous building stock of 42 million apartments. There is a huge range in terms of the building fabric and the income levels of the residents. I think it is realistic to increase the number of electric heat pumps from the current one million to six million by 2030. In the new construction sector in particular, the heat pump in combination with solar thermal energy is a sensible solution. But we should also keep in mind that we have connected 18 million apartments to the gas network. In addition, there are medium-sized companies that are also connected to the gas network and have an enormous need for heat. In the future, the heat supply can also be decarbonised via the gas network. There is enormous potential in this, as well as in the expansion of the district and local heating networks to supply green district heating.

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