Berlin Green leader Omid Nouripour’s mobile phone hardly stands still during the interview in his Berlin office in the Bundestag. Unity in the traffic light coalition is crumbling, and the war in Ukraine is posing difficult questions for the alliance. This does not harm his party, at least not in the polls – the Greens are far ahead of the SPD and FDP.
“I speak to our members almost every day about what’s happening in Berlin,” Nouripour told Handelsblatt. “No one is happy that we now have to buy gas in Qatar, for example, or leave coal power in reserve for longer.” But everyone is also aware: “The war is shaking many certainties in society as a whole.”
The economic consequences are worrying Nouripour. “We must do everything in our power to prevent the country from de-industrialization and prepare as best we can for the gas freeze,” he warned. “We are facing a historical turning point.”
Mr. Nouripour, CO2 emissions are rising and the Greens have to back coal – do you still like being part of this government?
Yes, because we don’t do anything that we can’t explain. I talk to our members almost every day about what’s happening in Berlin. There is a lot of unity in the party. Nobody is happy that we now have to buy gas in Qatar or leave coal power in reserve any longer. But it is also clear to everyone: the war is shaking many certainties in society as a whole.
How bad is the crisis for Germany?
There is reason to be concerned. Inflation, which was already picking up before the war, is accelerating. The supply chain problems, the labor shortage and the foreseeable gas shortage are a problem, especially for the autumn. In addition, there may be a renewed increase in corona numbers and thus many more failures in companies and facilities.
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The Greens when they were founded.
(Photo: imago stock&people)
Deindustrialization and criticism of growth was a theme that was defining for the Greens in their early stages.
I admit that I’m a little tired of the old stereotypes of my party. And yes, there are planetary limits to growth. But we must do everything in our power to prevent the country from de-industrialization and prepare as best we can for the gas ban. We are at a historical turning point.
Should you have reacted earlier?
We have this. The government has been working for months on filling the gas storage facilities, buying gas from other countries, and the energy security law is now being amended again. Incidentally, if the previous governments had not delayed the energy transition for years and decades and also cemented the high fossil dependency on Russia, we would already be much further along.
The industry is alarmed, demanding clear criteria according to which companies are separated from the gas. Which are they?
In the event of a gas emergency level, there are clear rules from the EU level, and in Germany the Federal Network Agency is responsible for this. In the last, the emergency level, certain groups are given special protection, such as social facilities such as hospitals and gas-fired power plants, as well as private households.
Benefit out of proportion to the risk.
… which are already burdened with horrendous energy costs. What else is reasonable?
Energy prices are a significant burden, especially for people on a tight budget. That is why we have already launched two relief packages. We’re looking at how they work, and with a view to autumn and winter, we’ll probably have to talk about further, targeted relief – also for the economy. But it is also clear that the state cannot absorb all the burdens. That’s why there is also the concerted action to make social actors accountable, independent of collective bargaining.
At the price that solidarity with Ukraine and the sanctions is crumbling?
One should not underestimate the people in Germany. You know what’s at stake. Our freedom, our democracy and our way of life. We Germans know what Putin wants to destroy. Many want to counter that.
So it is devastating that at the end of 2022 the nuclear power plants will go offline and the Greens reject a longer term.
After the review, the Federal Government estimates that the costs and risks of continued operation are disproportionate to the benefits. The share of nuclear power is currently only around two percent – so gas power plants could not be significantly relieved. There is also a high risk of liability. It’s been thirteen years since the last security check. If new fuel elements were installed, the power plants would have to be shut down for six months for the necessary safety inspection. The relaxation that this brings with the gas is disproportionate to the costs.
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Isn’t that too bureaucratic considering the social issues we are facing?
And with them, the continued operation of the three nuclear power plants would not help us. We’re talking about nuclear power here. This isn’t clumsy bureaucracy, it’s dead serious, literally. If even one screw is loose, entire regions have a problem. Nobody can be responsible for that, not even Friedrich Merz or Markus Söder.
Despite the energy crisis, the Greens do not want to extend the lifespan of the remaining German nuclear power plants.
(Photo: IMAGO/aal.photo)
How can it be that a nuclear power plant is still safe on December 31st but no longer safe on January 1st?
That’s not the question. The decisive factor is that from January 1st, the state would have to bear the risk completely, the operators also want to switch off. That being said, how long should a high-risk technology continue to operate without a security review?
The traffic light has recently shown itself to be at odds, also with the combustion engine off or in tax policy. Can this be good in the long run?
It goes without saying that in a coalition you sometimes have to struggle for solutions. At the same time, we implemented important projects, for example various laws for the rapid expansion of renewable energies this week. Traditionally, the last week before the summer break is very intense, and I think we can all use the break to start fresh again afterwards.
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The next trouble is only just around the corner. Federal Finance Minister Lindner wants to comply with the debt brake in 2023. Are you involved?
The cabinet has agreed on a draft budget for next year. But it must be said that we have a huge investment backlog in Germany. The war and inflation put a strain on consumers, but also on the state. The next corona wave is coming in autumn. Instruments such as short-time work benefits could play a greater role again. We’ll see how we want to manage all of this without fresh money and with the debt brake.
The finance minister has announced that he intends to return to the debt brake. Nouripour doubts whether this can be implemented.
(Photo: dpa)
Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock cannot imagine any economic relations with Russia. How do you see it?
We don’t want to dictate to companies where they do business. But I would advise against anyone making or holding investments in Russia. Business in Russia promises anything but a rosy future in the foreseeable future. And German companies cannot hope for legal certainty there.
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What has to happen in Russia for there to be a rapprochement again?
There has to be a policy change. Unfortunately, there is no sign of that at all. Like many others, I have had numerous conversations with people close to Vladimir Putin since 2014. But the result of these many discussions was completely void, as we now know at the latest. Of course we remain open to talks. But not at the expense of Ukraine.
Can talks with Russia bring improvement in certain areas?
It’s not looking very good at the moment. This is shown above all by the example of grain deliveries. The situation keeps getting worse. Putin is holding the global food supply hostage by blocking Ukrainian ports. The situation on the world grain market is dramatic. Even the announced reduction in Egypt’s wheat imports will hardly provide any long-term remedy.
At the same time, Russia is apparently shipping stolen grain from Ukraine.
This urgently needs to be prevented. Turkey had detained a Russian ship with stolen grain in one of its ports. Unfortunately, they have now let it go again. An international agreement is needed that the stolen ships are detained without exception in their destination ports.
Mr. Nouripour, thank you very much for the interview.
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