“Hard but fair”: Heil considers red-red-green to be “rather unlikely” – politics

The rents are soaring through the ceiling, the chances of having your own four walls rushing deeper and deeper into the cellar.

In “Hart aber fair”, Frank Plasberg asks: “Election campaign for rent and building – how does living stay affordable?”

The guests

► Hubertus Heil (48, SPD). The Federal Minister of Labor and Social Affairs uses every opportunity to advertise for his comrades.

► Tilman Kuban (34, CDU). The head of the Junge Union scores with ideas for young families.

► Ricarda Lang (27, Greens). The party vice-chief acknowledges a clear yes and no on the dispute about expropriations – before the election.

► Julie Kurz (37). The ARD journalist moved from London to Berlin and came from the eaves into the rain.

► Rainer Hank (68). The business journalist (FAS) is celebrated by Plasberg with a wink as the “Godfather of the market economy”.

Is there real information today or is it just ideology? In the ARD Quartell, the “four-way battle” of the smaller parties before, there was already quite scary to hear about expropriations, for example. The Zoff-o-Meter also sets up the eavesdroppers!

Most economic proposals

At the start, Plasberg checks the claims. JU-Kuban wants to “build more, including on top floors” and also spice up rural living space with traffic and IT infrastructure: there are 1.2 million vacant apartments there.

He doesn’t think much of the rent cap: “In Berlin we have a decline in the housing market of 30, 40 percent!”

Most conducting ideas

Green-Lang immediately knocks out slogans: Tenants left in the lurch by the grand coalition because property lobby. Expropriations possible. Build a million new social housing. Limit the increase in rents to 2.5 percent.

“So rent cover light,” the talk show host blasphemed.

Most precise analysis

“It is absolutely correct that living is a basic need,” explains the FAS journalist, “but this basic need cannot be met for the same price everywhere.”

Because, according to Hank: “The reason we are discussing rents is that people all want to go to the cities. That is a demand problem. “

And then the Zoff-o-Meter starts

“If the demand increases and the supply does not meet, the prices rise,” lectures the journalist. “Then there are two options. The socialist or social democratic variant is: We intervene in the price mechanism. Rent index, rent cover expropriation. That is classically social democratic. “

“Nananana!”, Protests Heil, “now be careful!”

But Hank still gets his thoughts through: “Or we can do it in a market economy, as Mr. Kuban said. Then we expand the offer and build. “

Most depressing message

“We’re going to test Mr. Heil’s nerves,” says the talk show host, and next, not the minister, but first the ARD journalist.

“I want to start with bad news,” says the new Berliner. “There is still room for improvement! In London you paid 3,000 euros for 80 square meters. ”And Berlin has already moved a little closer.

Most carefree election advertising

Heil has SPD comrades as top candidates in the federal government and in federal states, whom he now wants to support: “Hamburg tackled the issue in 2011 under Olaf Scholz,” praised the minister. “They now have ten times more socially bound housing construction than the state of Baden-Württemberg, per head of the population!”

“But the rental price brake also has problems there,” ARD-Kurz slides in between.

But Heil stays on the ball: “We want a respite for tenants at least in tense residential areas, and tenancy law gives that too, if we do it right.”

And Zoff again.

The journalist pours water into his wine: “In Hamburg, the rent brake has also led to many landlords renovating luxury, which has led to some of the prices going up!” She states.

For Heil there are other guilty parties: the “property lobby” “exerted influence over the Union faction in the legislative process,” he claims. Aha.

Most sobering figures

An ARD-Einspieler shows: Due to the rent cap, rents in Berlin fell by 7.8 percent, but the supply of rental apartments by 30 percent. After the Federal Constitutional Court took the lid off, the supply rose by 32 percent and rents by 6.7 percent.

The Greens, involved in the failed project in Berlin, are also looking for blame elsewhere: “It was not embedded in a nationwide concept because the federal government refuses to make a social rent policy!” She complains.

The toughest accusation

Then their speech locks open: “We have to build, build, build!”

“I tend to hear the Greens saying that people should be satisfied with 21 square meters per person,” Kuban intervenes.

“That was a bit of an evil voodoo doll to get out,” said the talk show host.

But the JU boss doesn’t put up with anything: “That was just a clarification!” He wedges back.

Whimsical discussion

Heil calls for a “pact for affordable housing”, but: “Until that has started, we cannot let tenants in Germany down.”

“I’ve been hearing this argument for ten years now!” Hank snorts, “and I’m slowly not believing it anymore.”

“It’s not a religious question,” the minister jokes.

“Hamburg is an exception,” admits Hank.

“Scholz got off to a great start,” beamed Heil.

“Isn’t he a candidate for chancellor with you?” Jokes Plasberg. Heidewitzka!

Most surprising statement

“The Berlin rent cap was a favorite idea of ​​the left,” says Plasberg. “The SPD led the government, and the left of the SPD enthusiastically participated.”

“No, another story is enthusiastic,” contradicts the minister.

Plasberg gets to the point: “We are facing a federal election in a week,” he aimed at the minister. “It could be that there is a red-red-green government!”

And salvation? “Rather unlikely,” he says in a nutshell. Ui!

The crucial question of the evening

“I don’t even want to make a statement now,” claims Plasberg. “I just want people to know what may happen in which combination.”

Then the talk show host repeated: “The left wing of the SPD was enthusiastic about it, and I’m sticking to it. Is that a foretaste of what to expect when red-red-green actually come together to form a government? “

Most disappointing answer

But then Heil withdraws: “After your long question, a clear answer: Our model is different,” replies Heil. “And I want to explain that to you …”

“I thought you said no now,” grumbles Plasberg.

“The answer is no!”, The minister now says clearly and unequivocally, but does not mean the expected left coalition, but the rent cap.

Last stand

At least Heil can support a candidate comrade on this occasion: “The main thing is, and Franziska Giffey in Berlin is counting on it, that the housing market has to be stimulated by building, building, building!” He trumpets.

And the committed election campaigner goes one step further: “By the way: Olaf Scholz has also made more federal properties available!” He reports.

Most justified allegations

“As a Social Democrat, I can’t do anything with the ideology of the Left Party!” Heil makes it clear again.

Kuban does not want the minister to be able to wiggle his way out from under the rent cover so easily: “The government in Berlin is still led by a governing mayor of the SPD,” the JU chief states. “In the end, the SPD went along with it. You can’t just deny that! “

“That shows that something has gotten out of hand,” Hank then judged about the attacks on a particularly hostile housing company. “This aggressive mood that is in Berlin does not exist anywhere else in the republic. Cars are set on fire by craftsmen from Vonovia! “

But the Greens do not contest it: she railed that so many people in Berlin were afraid of losing their home. But whether she is in favor of expropriations, she must first think about it again. Well then!

Quote of the evening

Rainer Hank:

“Intervening in the price setting does nothing to expand the range.”


Borderline notions, sayings from class cramps, air-pumped pseudo arguments and quick-boiling emotions from the overpressure chamber: That was a talk show in the “Phrasing foam” category.