DGB boss Reiner Hoffmann calls for easing of EU debt rules

Neither the climate nor occupational safety is helped if this steel is produced under significantly worse conditions in China or India. “Not to mention securing the value chain,” said Hoffmann.

Read the full interview here:

Mr. Hoffmann, after eight years as head of the DGB, you are retiring in May. What successes are you aiming for?
Shortly after I took office, we managed to completely unravel the CETA free trade agreement with Canada and to enshrine social and environmental rights, although the EU Commission said there was nothing more that could be done. That was quite a feat. We agreed with great unanimity on a pension concept that was implemented almost one-to-one by the grand coalition – at least as far as the stabilization of the pension level is concerned.

The grand coalition has also met union demands to restore parity in health insurance funding.
Yes. Chancellor Merkel originally only promised me that the difference between employee and employer contributions would not widen, but that was not enough for us. Parity is now restored. We also pointed out the enormous investment backlog – incidentally together with the Federation of German Industries – and made sure that politicians could no longer turn a blind eye. The issue of investing in the future is clearly reflected in the traffic light coalition agreement.

The traffic light also raises the minimum wage to twelve euros. Will the DGB now demand 20 euros at the federal congress in May?
The trade unions have long had different ideas about the minimum wage. The fact that it was introduced in 2015 and is now being increased by politicians shows that the political clout of the trade unions is significantly higher when we as the DGB have a clear, common position. I would have wished that the Minimum Wage Commission could manage the twelve euros on its own, but the employers were not willing to do that. Now there is a one-time increase and after that the development of collective wages must be the guideline again.

So no new demand at the DGB federal congress?
Our demand is a poverty-proof minimum wage that does not fall below 60 percent of the median income – and we will also reaffirm that.

You cannot be satisfied with the membership development. At the end of 2014, the eight DGB trade unions still had a good 6.1 million members, now there are around 375,000 fewer. Is the union a discontinued model?
Not at all. In the pandemic or in the transformation, we see how important unions are for decent employment and income. Membership development as a result of significant structural changes is not satisfactory, but has stabilized.

Aren’t the unions only strong in the old economy, in the metal or chemical industry or in the public sector?
Objection, it’s not old economy at all. There are a few smart-ass people who think, for example, that we no longer have to produce steel in Europe. But the climate or occupational safety is not helped at all if this steel is produced under significantly worse conditions in China or India. Not to mention securing the value chains.

But the unions have their strongest base in industry or in the public sector…
Of course it is easier to organize a chemical park in Leverkusen or a Daimler plant in Stuttgart where 20,000 people work. On the other hand, in the service sector we often have to deal with a large number of small-scale companies that are spread across the area. Think of the daycare centers. We can’t even hire that many union secretaries to go to every day care center and see how we can improve the working conditions there.

What about a new economy group like Amazon, which Verdi has been struggling with for years?
Even if Amazon still does not accept collective agreements, wages and working conditions have improved in this country – and this would not have been possible without pressure from the unions. But Amazon is an example of the Americanization of employment relationships in Germany, with many fixed-term contracts, a lot of part-time work and employee monitoring. Organizing or setting up a works council is often more difficult.

>> Read here: Historic step: Amazon employees in the USA vote for the introduction of a union for the first time

You are leaving the DGB in one of the greatest economic crises in the history of the Federal Republic of Germany, first the pandemic, now the Ukraine war. Will we get off scot-free on the job market this time?
I hope so, but that depends very much on how long this criminal war of aggression lasts. The highest priority – we agree with the Ukrainian unions on this, but unfortunately not with all Russian ones – must now be a ceasefire so that a diplomatic solution can be reached.

After all, there is now a great willingness to help in taking in refugees in Europe. You care deeply about the continent. How is he?
Europe is still in an extremely difficult state. We see a rise in illiberal democracies and significant problems with the rule of law. I myself never believed that a majority of Britons could vote for Brexit, and I am concerned about the run-off election in France. All of this confirms my view that we cannot create cohesion in Europe solely through the internal market.

“Nobody falls in love with a single market”, as the former EU Commission President Jacques Delors already knew…
I agree. It is therefore right that the EU Commission is now finally addressing the European Pillar of Social Rights. At first I was very critical of them, because I thought that only non-binding benchmarks would be agreed again. But if we can now get the European minimum wage, the regulation of platform work and the EU pay transparency directive, which the Confederation of German Employers’ Associations is currently trying to downsize, that could bring an enormous boost to integration in Europe. Because then people will see that Europe protects good work. And that good work does not have to be protected from Europe on the other hand.

SPD, Greens and FDP started as a “progressive coalition”, now they are increasing defense spending and have to secure the energy supply. Was that it with the progress in this parliamentary term?
That also depends on the course of the war. Old certainties have begun to falter, we are heading towards a new Cold War with Russia, and perhaps also with China. At the same time, the huge transformation tasks cannot be postponed. On the contrary, the war is showing us that we need a diversification of our energy supply and a rapid expansion of renewables. Politicians have simply overslept a lot in the last ten years.

>>Read here: Canceled turning point? No clear traffic light commitment to the two percent target

The transformation costs a lot of money, but Finance Minister Christian Lindner is sticking to the debt brake. For how much longer?
We are in talks with Mr. Lindner and the FDP is definitely looking at what reforms are necessary at European level. Against the background of this disgusting war and the tasks ahead of us, slavishly sticking to the arbitrary limits of 60 percent public debt and 3 percent new debt will not get us anywhere. The fiscal criteria are an investment brake that we cannot allow ourselves. Smart politics is required here.

Could it be that the crisis is strengthening centrifugal forces within the DGB again because Verdi wants money for nursing staff, but IG Metall is demanding subsidies for the climate-friendly conversion of industry and the preservation of jobs?
Of course there are distribution conflicts. But why, for example, is IG Metall also committed to strengthening local public transport, even though many of its members are screwing cars together? Because it has the interests of society as a whole in mind. When it comes to caregiving, too, it is in the interest of all employees across all sectors that parents receive good care services and that the employees are properly paid for it. It is the task of the DGB to moderate possible conflicts of interest and to come to common answers in the end.

Yasmin Fahimi is expected to take on this job from May. There was a lot of bickering before her nomination was finalized. Does it bother you that at times your post was treated almost like a consolation prize?
It wasn’t passed around like a consolation prize, but IG Metall made serious efforts to fill the post properly from within its own ranks. I very much welcome the fact that Yasmin Fahimi has now been chosen. Because I have always emphasized in all interviews over the past twelve months that I would have great sympathy if a woman were to follow me. I’m very satisfied.

What tip would you give Ms. Fahimi for dealing with self-confident individual trade unionists?
Yasmin Fahimi is self-confident, knows the inner workings of the unions well and has excellent political connections. The last thing she needs is the basics from the outgoing DGB chairman.

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